AUG. 13, 2023, 3:32 P.M.
I’m Todd L. Burns, and welcome to Music Journalism Insider, a newsletter about music journalism. Click here to subscribe!
Nina Antonia is author of Johnny Thunders: In Cold Blood. The book was first published in 1987, but has been revised and expanded to coincide with the 50th anniversary of his debut album with the New York Dolls.
How did you get to where you are today, professionally?
If I was to tell you about my journey as a music journalist and author, we would be here all day and night! I didn’t go to school to study journalism and always wrote from the heart, for the passion of the subject rather than cold objectivity. People have different ways of getting into the field and although education and a university degree is helpful, sometimes it can make people’s work a little homogenised. The people I looked up to as music journalists were Lester Bangs and Nick Kent whose personalities seep through in their writing. They are very much products of their time but still readable, they capture the energy of those times.
The first edition of Johnny Thunders – In Cold Blood which came out in 1987, when I was 27, is very different to the updated 1992 version, I’d had time to grow as a writer and gather more material. I’ve written countless liner notes, aside from Thunders, there has been the Dolls, Stooges, Velvet Underground & Nico, in fact I think there is a kindle book of the sleeve notes that Jungle Records compiled. I never looked upon writing as a profession or a job. For me, it was a vocation and I still feel that way.
In my late teens I read Truman Capote’s In Cold Blood, Norman Mailer’s The Executioner’s Song and most importantly Ladies and Gentlemen, Lenny Bruce as well as work by Burroughs and Genet and that informed my approach. Of course, I wasn’t a lauded male author, I was an inexperienced young woman with a dream! Johnny loved the idea of there being a book about him! In the long ago days of the mid-1980’s, rock books were far fewer. However, Barbara Charrone had just worked with Keith Richards on an authorised biography, so that was fortuitous as it meant in Johnny terms, “If it’s good enough for Keith Richards to have a chick write his story, then it’s good enough for me!”
After the book first came out, I did sporadic work for the music press, Record Collector mostly, Jimmy Miller, Wayne Kramer, Richard Hell, Jayne County, people who weren’t really being picked up on at the time. As a woman and a single mother, I worked my own niche, there was very little support. Sadly but predictably, after Johnny died in 1991, interest in the book grew and there was a greater demand for it. By that point, I was more confident as a writer and had accrued more information, including an in-depth interview with Jerry Nolan. For whatever reason, even as a young person, I had a sense of wanting to capture time. Johnny and the mileu around him were exceptional people, even if flawed but their time was fleeting. That’s the rock n’ roll life for you.
I kept on writing, had more books published, including The New York Dolls – Too Much Soon which had done well, but getting paid work was still sporadic, though I did contribute to Mojo, Uncut, Classic Rock and umpteen others. When Johnny died, the lights went out for me in terms of what I liked in music, although I was still listening to stuff: Nick Cave’s early work, Nico I’ve always loved.
Maybe it was part of growing up—however, I’d always been interested in fantasy and decadent literature and that is the field I’m now writing in. I’ve had a novel published The Greenwood Faun (Egaeus Press) and a collection of essays Dancing with Salome (Trapart) as well as collating the poetry and essays of the ‘forgotten’ Victorian poet, Lionel Johnson, for a volume entitled Incurable, which includes a lengthy biographical introduction I also wrote. More recently, I’ve had articles published, including cover stories for Fortean Times which is the only magazine I’m likely to read these days!
Can you please briefly describe the book?
The Bible of All Things Thunders: a candid, unflinching portrayal of one of the most influential musicians of the 20th Century.
How did you come to this subject for a book? What made the topic so interesting to you?
Because he represented the spirit of rock n’ roll, Johnny was like an electric charge! I’d adored both the Dolls and The Heartbreakers and couldn’t understand why no one had written a book about Johnny. Iggy Pop’s I Need More had just been published and that was another prompt. As I mentioned earlier, in those days, rock books were far fewer, whilst information was less readily available pre the internet.
Since the Dolls, I’d been collecting whatever press there was on the guitarist, which was helpful. Johnny was a man of mystery and, as I was to discover, he was quite a private, shy person. The UK media loved posting teasers as to his whereabouts. At the time I began the project, either the NME or Sounds had announced that he was on the run from the mafia due to his having had an affair with the daughter of a Don. It was utter nonsense of course… or maybe it wasn’t! You never could tell with Johnny, he lived a midnight kind of life, which of course made him a fascinating character to write about. He breezed into a room like he was on the set of Mean Streets, which was irresistible from a literary perspective.
What did the research process look like?
Due to my circumstances, it was initially patchy. I had my press cuttings of course but I had to learn on my feet by doing interviews with some of the people who were around Johnny at that time, for example Leee Black Childers, who had worked with both Bowie and Iggy and then managed The Heartbreakers, Stiv Bators when he was adding backing vocals. Because Johnny was quite a quiet person and he’d answered the same old questions a million times before, he suggested that I write by observing what his life was like. I used to imagine that I was a camera!
What was the hardest thing about the whole project?
Getting a publishing deal. Don’t forget I was an absolute beginner when it came to knowing how to get a book deal, what a publisher actually does and distribution which is all important. First of all, I wrote to all the established publishers, maybe 10 or more and had to get used to rejection slips. I was disheartened, but knew there had to be a way to progress. I even contacted the NME, which was then Britain’s leading music paper. The editor, Neil Spencer, told me I should give up on the idea and that Thunders’ music was found to be wanting not just by him but by all the members of staff.
Virgin Books, who were then quite a big concern, got in touch and suggested that I have a meeting with their editor, whose name I can’t remember unfortunately. I think I may have deliberately erased the memory cells. I was living in Liverpool at that point so had to sell off a great many records to be able to pay for the coach fare there and back, but I figured it was worth it and was quite upbeat. I was invited into this really plush office and after handshakes, the guy told me he liked my writing. Great! I thought he was going to give me a deal for it, but he took the same route as the NME. He didn’t hold Johnny as being in any way important and nor did he think punk was important, other than the Sid Vicious Family Album which they were publishing. I think the guy thought he was doing me a favor by concluding that if I was to choose more commercial subjects such as Frankie Goes To Hollywood or Lionel Ritchie, I might just get a book deal! Although it was upsetting, I was young and feisty and certain that the world really really needed a book about Johnny Thunders.
What was the easiest thing about the whole project?
The easiest thing was when Johnny signed to Jungle Records in London and the director of the company said they would publish the book. Finally! For many years, the rejection letter from the NME‘s editor Neil Spencer took pride of place in the toilet of Jungle Records. It’s worth mentioning that Jungle were and remain a truly independent label, there are no penthouse offices with sculptured fountains, but simply the desire to release music and somehow survive in increasingly corporate times. After Johnny died in 1991, there was increasing demand for the book. By that point I had gleaned a lot more knowledge than had previously been available as I’d written a book on the NY Dolls entitled Too Much Too Soon (Omnibus Books) I was able to incorporate that into the new edition which was published via Cherry Red Records. Johnny Thunders ‘In Cold Blood’ has had quite a journey and is now available through Jawbone Press. They’ve done a lovely job on presentation and it has a new chapter as well as an introduction by Mike Scott of the Waterboys. Few books get to travel quite so far. There have also been Italian and Japanese versions. Imagine if I’d stopped trying after the Virgin debacle?
Did you have any mentors along the way in your career? What did they teach you?
If I look back to the earliest incarnation of In Cold Blood, then I would have to say it was my ex-husband, Kris Guidio, who was an illustrator. Originally we hoped there would be space for his artwork, but that turned out not to be viable. Nonetheless, he edited my work and would point out anything that was glaringly gauche. I was a novice at my craft, having only written a few articles for a local fanzine, but I was young enough for passion to override caution.
As the book took shape, there were a couple of people who were really inspiring, particularly The Heartbreakers former manager, Leee Black Childers. As well as being a great photographer, he was also a fabulous raconteur. Johnny’s manager, Christopher Gierke, also taught me a lot, he was very philosophical and unconventional in his approach. Both Leee and Christopher were extremely encouraging even if the rest of the world wasn’t.
If I think about all the fantastic people, the last of the post-Warhol, New York art scene and how kind they were, I’m quite taken aback. Although I’ve been a writer for the longest time now, that was the honeymoon, believe it or not. It was the culture beyond that, the English rock media, who were far less welcoming. Women were accepted as photographers, but it took a long while for them to be accepted as music writers.
What’s next for you? Anything you want to plug?
I suppose the spark of rock and roll died for me when Johnny passed, although like I mentioned there is a New York Dolls biography that is still available and I also edited Peter Doherty’s diaries for him, as well as continuing to write sleeve notes and the odd magazine article. However, the days of Lester Bangs and Nick Kent are far far behind us, music is just another commodity rather than a way of life. Plus going to gigs became very expensive and I don’t like stadium shows. The best place to see a band is in a small sweaty dive.
However, I have a need to write and I’d always liked decadent and fantasy literature, as well as certain types of poetry, Edgar Allan Poe was an influence, Wilde’s Dorian Gray too. But I didn’t have the confidence to write about it until I got into my late 50’s, when I submitted a short story to an independent publisher, Egaeus Press. They produce beautiful limited edition books that are meant to look like Victorian annuals. They also published my first novel, The Greenwood Faun which is a ghostly gay love story set in Victorian London. Following on from that, I collated the poetry and verses of the “lost” Victorian poet, Lionel Johnson, for a book entitled Incurable via Strange Attractor Press. A new edition of Incurable is expected before the end of the year. Michael Dirda of the Washington Post has reviewed my writing favorably and I got a lovely write up in the Gay and Lesbian Review for Incurable.
The last project I worked on was a series of essays about the uncanny aspects of Oscar Wilde’s life, Dancing With Salome, which is available via Amazon and through Trapart Books. I’ve also started contributing to Fortean Times which is a great magazine covering anomalies, from UFOs to Poltergeists and all manner of strange things! It’s like if X-Files was English and turned into a magazine.
Did you enjoy this interview? You can support this newsletter by subscribing here. Among other things, you’ll get full access to all 600+ interviews I’ve done as part of the newsletter. I’ve talked with writers and editors from Pitchfork, Rolling Stone, the Guardian, and many more.
Nina Antonia 